Legislature(2023 - 2024)GRUENBERG 120
04/02/2024 03:00 PM House STATE AFFAIRS
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB330 | |
| HB228 | |
| HB190 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | HB 330 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HB 228 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HB 190 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
HB 190-ALASKA SUNSET COMMISSION
4:06:07 PM
CHAIR SHAW announced that the final order of business would be
HOUSE BILL NO. 190, "An Act establishing a violation for
hindering the Alaska Sunset Commission; relating to the duties
of the legislature; establishing the Alaska Sunset Commission to
review and make recommendations on discontinuation of or changes
to state entities; relating to the powers and duties of the
Alaska Sunset Commission; and providing for an effective date."
[Before the committee was CSHB 190(W&M).]
4:06:32 PM
REPRESENTATIVE BEN CARPENTER, Alaska State Legislature,
presented CSHB190(W&M) on behalf of the sponsor, the House
Special Committee on Ways and Means, on which he serves as
chair. He stated the purpose of HB 190 is to improve state
government. Through HB 190, a third-party review would be
created under the lieutenant governor called the Sunset
Commission, which is modeled after the Texas Sunset Advisory
Commission.
4:08:44 PM
ERIC BEVERLY, Executive Director, Texas Sunset Advisory
Commission, provided information about the commission and how it
utilizes objective analysis to improve state government. State
agencies in Texas undergo sunset review about every 12 years.
Agencies are evaluated to determine if they are achieving
statutory objectives, operating efficiently and cost-
effectively, and encouraging public participation.
MR. BEVERLY explained that since the Texas Sunset Commission
began its work in the 1970s, 95 agencies have been abolished, or
have transferred some functions to new agencies. The Texas
Sunset Advisory Commission has garnered $1 billion dollars; $16
has been gained for every $1 appropriated to the commission
since 1985. The sunset process shines a light on an agency to
determine if it conforms to best practices. The sunset process
has led to major improvements in nearly every area of Texas
state government. Unnecessary state agencies and programs have
been abolished; state laws have been modernized; state
expenditures have been reduced; public participation in
government accountability has increased; and duplication among
state agencies and programs has been eliminated.
4:12:12 PM
MR. BEVERLY discussed the improvements made to the monitoring of
highway contracts, strengthened internal controls, and a more
integrated and understandable transportation planning process,
because of the Texas Sunset Advisory Commission. He described
improvements for the Public Utility Commission, environmental
regulators, and oil and gas regulators of Texas. He discussed
the reorganization and streamlining of the Departments of Health
and Human Services of Texas. He said that generally, the Texas
Sunset Advisory Commission generates cost-savings; however,
occasionally the commission requires a fiscal impact remedy. He
further emphasized the importance of public participation in the
sun setting process.
4:17:19 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CARRICK asked if an agency-wide audit process
existed prior to the Texas Sunset Advisory Commission.
MR. BEVERLY said in Texas there is a state auditor's office and
Legislative Budget Board, which predate the sunset commission.
4:18:05 PM
EMILY JOHNSON, Deputy Director for Reviews, Texas Sunset
Advisory Commission, explained that the Texas Sunset Advisory
Commission was built into the Legislative Budget Board for some
time. Currently, the commission is separate.
REPRESENTATIVE CARRICK asked if the legislative audit process in
Texas involved an agency-wide audit prior to the implementation
of the Texas Sunset Advisory Commission.
MR. BEVERLY answered that he was unsure.
4:19:20 PM
REPRESENTATIVE STORY asked about the makeup of the Texas Sunset
Advisory Commission.
MR. BEVERLY explained that the lieutenant governor appoints five
senators and one public member, and the speaker of the House
appoints five state representatives and another public member,
for a total of twelve members. The legislative members serve
four-year terms, and the public members serve two-year terms.
REPRESENTATIVE STORY asked why the commission utilizes state
lawmakers as members of the commission. She explained that the
proposed legislation calls for the commission to be made up of
private industry representatives.
MS. JOHNSON explained that there is a piece of legislation that
comes out of the sunset process, in Texas, which indicates why
legislative members make up the commission.
REPRESENTATIVE STORY asked whether the Texas University system
is examined by the Texas Sunset Advisory Commission.
MR. BEVERLY replied that the commission reviews are limited to
executive branch agencies. Universities and courts are exempt
from review in Texas. However, the Texas Higher Education
Coordinating Board is reviewed.
MS. JOHNSON made note of components that are under special
review within the higher education system.
4:22:10 PM
REPRESENTATIVE STORY asked why the commission is made up of
members outside the government.
REPRESENTATIVE CARPENTER said he thought it was important to
keep the commission apolitical for continuity between election
cycles. He emphasized his preference for members with subject-
matter expertise to examine budgets, accounting, and the
management of various government agencies.
REPRESENTATIVE STORY asked about the intent to include the
University of Alaska (UA) system in the list of agencies the
Alaska Sunset Commission would examine.
REPRESENTATIVE CARPENTER opined that UA should stand on its own
and rely less on state government. Because they are currently
funded like any another department within state government, he
stated the intention to utilize the proposed Alaska Sunset
Commission to ensure that the universities operate as
efficiently as possible with respect to the state's budget.
REPRESENTATIVE STORY noted the legal privileges and potential
power to commissioners and whether Representative Carpenter
foresees any legal liabilities.
REPRESENTATIVE CARPENTER answered, no. He said that CSHB
190(W&M) creates statute for commissioner authority. If there
are concerns, the bill could be amended, which would reduce the
authority of the Alaska Sunset Commission. The goal of the bill
is to grant subject matter experts the opportunity to help
improve state government.
4:26:23 PM
DONNA ARDUIN, Staff, Representative Ben Carpenter, explained
that the only authority the Alaska Sunset Commission would have
would be to provide a report and draft legislation to the
legislature regarding agency sunsets.
REPRESENTATIVE CARPENTER expressed that his intent in bringing
HB 190 forward is not to abolish departments, but to create a
method to increase government efficiency by requiring government
action and attention to the commission's findings.
REPRESENTATIVE STORY referenced page 5, lines 3-7, of CSHB
190(W&M), which read as follows:
(c) In carrying out its functions under AS
44.99.700 - 44.99.759, the commission or designated
staff may attend any meetings and proceedings of any
entity of the state, including any meeting or
proceeding of a governing body of a state entity that
is closed to the public, and may inspect the records,
documents, and files of any entity of the state,
including any record, document, or file that is
REPRESENTATIVE STORY made note that the broad access granted to
the commission for the inspection of government entities gives
her pause.
REPRESENTATIVE CARPENTER commented that legislative auditors and
staff have a similar level of authority regarding state audits.
REPRESENTATIVE STORY pointed to the great expense in the fiscal
note involved with investing in the Alaska Sunset Commission.
She asked if improvements could be made to the state auditing
process as an alternative.
REPRESENTATIVE CARPENTER said that he sees the creation of the
Alaska Sunset Commission as an improvement not a replacement to
the state auditor. He explained that the Alaska Sunset
Commission would do a "deep dive" on state agencies, while the
state auditor has other responsibilities.
REPRESENTATIVE STORY emphasized the importance of the current
auditing process.
REPRESENTATIVE CARPENTER expressed his frustration that audits
have little to no impact on the effectiveness of state agencies.
MS. ARDUIN said that the state auditor conducts financial
audits. Since 2013, in statute, auditors could contract out for
performance review audits. That legislation sunset last year
due to underutilization. The Alaska Sunset Commission was
proposed in response.
4:31:15 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CARRICK moved to adopt Amendment 1 to CSHB
190(W&M), labeled 33-LS0685\S.1, Wallace, 3/20/24, which read as
follows:
Page 4, line 29:
Delete "and draft legislation"
Page 7, lines 13 - 16:
Delete "The commission shall include in the
report draft legislation to implement the
recommendations of the commission. Draft legislation
must be submitted to the rules committee of each house
with a request to introduce the legislation to
implement the recommendations of the commission."
REPRESENTATIVE WRIGHT objected for the purpose of discussion.
REPRESENTATIVE CARRICK noted that she appreciated the bill
discussion. She commented that performance review audits are a
valuable resource. The data collection that would be achieved
by the Alaska Sunset Commission would be largely similar to the
legislative audit findings if performance review measures were
included. She explained that the amendment deletes references
to drafting legislation. A report would be prepared in lieu of
legislation. She emphasized that legislative audit findings
should be taken seriously.
4:34:06 PM
REPRESENTATIVE WRIGHT asked to hear from the bill sponsor
regarding Amendment 1.
REPRESENTATIVE CARPENTER reiterated that the purpose of creating
the Alaska Sunset Commission would be to hire subject matter
experts to take a close look at state agencies to find
improvements to state government. He opined that generating
recommended bill language through the commission would be an
efficient way to act on commission recommendations.
4:35:58 PM
REPRESENTATIVE STORY commented that she finds it unrealistic to
expect industry representatives to draft legislation. She
offered her support of Amendment 1.
REPRESENTATIVE CARPENTER said that the individuals with subject
matter expertise would have staff to help with report writing to
draft legislation.
4:37:07 PM
REPRESENTATIVE WRIGHT maintained his objection.
4:37:20 PM
The committee took an at-ease from 4:37 p.m. to 4:38 p.m.
4:38:22 PM
A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Carrick and Story
voted in favor of Amendment 1 to CSHB 190(W&M). Representatives
Carpenter, Wright, and Shaw voted against it. Therefore,
Amendment 2 failed to be adopted by a vote of 2-3.
4:38:56 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CARRICK moved to adopt Amendment 2 to CSHB
190(W&M), labeled 33-LS0685\S.2, Wallace 3/20/24, which read as
follows:
Page 3, line 27:
Delete "and"
Page 3, line 28, following "representatives":
Insert ", and four members appointed by the
commissioner of the department being reviewed under
AS 44.99.730 or the president of the University of
Alaska if the University of Alaska is being reviewed
under AS 44.99.730. Members appointed by the
commissioner or president of the University of Alaska
under this subsection must be employees of the
department or the University of Alaska that is under
review under AS 44.99.730"
Page 3, following line 31:
Insert a new paragraph to read:
"(1) by the governor, the president of the
senate, or the speaker of the house of
representatives"
Page 4, line 1:
Delete "(1)"
Insert "(A)"
Page 4, line 3:
Delete "(2)"
Insert "(B)"
Page 4, line 3, following "reappointed":
Insert "; and
(2) by the commissioner or president of the
University of Alaska serve until the review of that
department or the University of Alaska is complete
under AS 44.99.730"
REPRESENTATIVE WRIGHT objected for the purpose of discussion.
REPRESENTATIVE CARRICK provided an example of how employees of
agencies are fit to report serious inefficiency issues,
challenges, and needs. She explained that Amendment 2 adds four
additional seats on the commission for department or agency
representatives to create an inside perspective on the
operations of each department.
4:41:14 PM
REPRESENTATIVE WRIGHT asked to hear from bill sponsor.
REPRESENTATIVE CARPENTER explained that the legislative auditor
can complete their audits without input from the administration.
He commented that Amendment 2 would create complications.
MS. ARDUIN added that the agency under review can create a
report for the commission. By starting with self-reporting,
problems can be highlighted early in the auditing process.
REPRESENTATIVE CARPENTER commented that the intent of the
proposed Alaska Sunset Commission is to be interactive with
departments. He highlighted that department workers are aware
of what is broken but lack the ability to fix issues due to
time, personnel, and budget constraints. Department input is
essential to the process, and the bill includes the solicitation
of that input at the start of the agency audit. He commented
that he is not in favor of Amendment 2.
REPRESENTATIVE STORY emphasized the importance of Amendment 2.
She compared the proposed commission to the Texas Sunset
Advisory Commission and made note of departmental involvement.
REPRESENTATIVE CARRICK said that Amendment 2 ensures that
departmental involvement is represented throughout the entire
process and not just in the initial report. She emphasized the
importance of including departmental representatives in
providing efficiency recommendations.
4:44:03 PM
REPRESENTATIVE WRIGHT maintained his objection.
4:44:08 PM
A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Carrick and Story
voted in favor of Amendment 2 to CSHB 190(W&M). Representatives
Wright, Carpenter, and Shaw voted against it. Therefore,
Amendment 2 failed to be adopted by a vote of 2-3.
4:44:39 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CARRICK moved to adopt Amendment 3 to CSHB
190(W&M), labeled 33-LS0685\S.3, Wallace, 3/20/24, which read as
follows:
Page 5, lines 30 - 31:
Delete "at least"
Page 6, line 1:
Delete "each"
Insert "every other year"
Page 7, line 11:
Delete "a"
Insert "the first regular"
REPRESENTATIVE WRIGHT objected.
REPRESENTATIVE CARRICK explained that Amendment 3 changes the
frequency of agency review to every other year to allow more
time for the legislature to act on recommendations. She offered
that by changing the frequency, the potential for politicization
would be reduced. She made note of the complexity of auditing
large departments, which may involve significant changes to act
upon and lengthy policy discussions.
4:46:59 PM
REPRESENTATIVE WRIGHT commented that Amendment 3 takes away from
the spirit of the bill. He asked to hear from the bill sponsor.
REPRESENTATIVE CARPENTER commented that the legislature "has the
time and lacks the will." He argued that reducing the frequency
of agency review prolongs difficult conversations that are
necessary to increase government efficiency. With a focused
team, 12 months is plenty of time to provide recommendations to
the legislature, he opined.
MS. ARDUIN commented that the Texas Sunset Advisory Commission
reviews one department every year, and therefore every 12 years
a given agency is reviewed. If Amendment 3 was adopted, the
time between agency reviews would double. She commented that HB
190 was amended by House Special Committee on Ways and Means to
change the bill language to include the words "at least" to
allow for the possibility that multiple smaller agencies could
be reviewed in the same year.
REPRESENTATIVE CARRICK commented that regarding board and
commission sunsets, adequate consideration of audits by the
legislature has not been practiced. She explained that
Amendment 3 would help to provide more time for the legislature
to address recommendations that come forth.
REPRESENTATIVE WRIGHT maintained his objection.
4:51:15 PM
A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Story and Carrick
voted in favor of Amendment 3 to CSHB 190(W&M). Representatives
Wright, Carpenter, Carrick, and Shaw voted against it.
Therefore, Amendment 3 190 failed to be adopted by a vote of 2-
3.
4:51:48 PM
CHAIR SHAW opened public testimony on HB 190. After
ascertaining that no one wished to testify, he closed public
testimony.
4:51:57 PM
CHAIR SHAW announced that CSHB 190(W&M) was held over.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| HB 330 Supporting Document - Improving Public Safety.pdf |
HSTA 3/26/2024 3:00:00 PM HSTA 4/2/2024 3:00:00 PM HSTA 4/16/2024 3:00:00 PM |
HB 330 |
| HB 330 Supporting Document - Inspire_Tablet_Program_Write_Up.pdf |
HSTA 3/26/2024 3:00:00 PM HSTA 4/2/2024 3:00:00 PM HSTA 4/16/2024 3:00:00 PM |
HB 330 |
| HB 330 Supporting Document - Not a luxury.pdf |
HSTA 3/26/2024 3:00:00 PM HSTA 4/2/2024 3:00:00 PM HSTA 4/16/2024 3:00:00 PM |
HB 330 |
| HB 330 Supporting Document - RAND.pdf |
HSTA 3/26/2024 3:00:00 PM HSTA 4/2/2024 3:00:00 PM HSTA 4/16/2024 3:00:00 PM |
HB 330 |
| HB 330 Supporting Document - Research in Support of Digital Access (2).pdf |
HSTA 3/26/2024 3:00:00 PM HSTA 4/2/2024 3:00:00 PM HSTA 4/16/2024 3:00:00 PM |
HB 330 |
| HB 330 Version H Sponsor Statement.pdf |
HSTA 3/26/2024 3:00:00 PM HSTA 4/2/2024 3:00:00 PM HSTA 4/16/2024 3:00:00 PM |
HB 330 |
| HB 330 Version H Sectional Analysis.pdf |
HSTA 3/26/2024 3:00:00 PM HSTA 4/2/2024 3:00:00 PM HSTA 4/16/2024 3:00:00 PM |
HB 330 |
| HB 330 Version H.pdf |
HSTA 3/26/2024 3:00:00 PM HSTA 4/2/2024 3:00:00 PM HSTA 4/16/2024 3:00:00 PM |
HB 330 |
| HB228 Version A 02022024.pdf |
HSTA 4/2/2024 3:00:00 PM |
HB 228 |
| HB228 Sponsor Statement 02012024.pdf |
HMLV 2/13/2024 1:00:00 PM HSTA 4/2/2024 3:00:00 PM |
HB 228 |
| HB228 Sectional Analysis 02012024.pdf |
HMLV 2/13/2024 1:00:00 PM HSTA 4/2/2024 3:00:00 PM |
HB 228 |
| HB228 Version R 02022024.pdf |
HMLV 2/13/2024 1:00:00 PM HSTA 4/2/2024 3:00:00 PM |
HB 228 |
| HB228 Presentation - STA.pdf |
HSTA 3/14/2024 3:00:00 PM HSTA 4/2/2024 3:00:00 PM |
HB 228 |
| HB 228 Sectional Analysis Version P.pdf |
HSTA 3/14/2024 3:00:00 PM HSTA 4/2/2024 3:00:00 PM |
HB 228 |
| HB228 Fiscal Note - DCCED.pdf |
HSTA 3/14/2024 3:00:00 PM HSTA 4/2/2024 3:00:00 PM |
HB 228 |
| HB 228 Sectional Analysis Version P.pdf |
HSTA 4/2/2024 3:00:00 PM |
HB 228 |
| HB 228 Sponsor Statement Version P.pdf |
HSTA 3/14/2024 3:00:00 PM HSTA 4/2/2024 3:00:00 PM |
HB 228 |
| HB0190B.pdf |
HSTA 3/12/2024 3:00:00 PM HSTA 4/2/2024 3:00:00 PM |
HB 190 |
| HB190 Alaska Sunset Commission Presentation.pdf |
HSTA 4/2/2024 3:00:00 PM HSTA 4/9/2024 3:00:00 PM |
HB 190 |
| List of Divisions and Corporations Under Each Department (for presentation).pdf |
HSTA 3/12/2024 3:00:00 PM HSTA 4/2/2024 3:00:00 PM |
|
| HB190 Alaska Sunset Commission Presentation 3.12.2024.pdf |
HSTA 3/12/2024 3:00:00 PM HSTA 4/2/2024 3:00:00 PM HSTA 4/16/2024 3:00:00 PM |
HB 190 |
| HB 190 - Amendment 1 Carrick HSTA.pdf |
HSTA 3/26/2024 3:00:00 PM HSTA 4/2/2024 3:00:00 PM |
HB 190 |
| HB 190 - Amendment 2 Carrick HSTA.pdf |
HSTA 3/26/2024 3:00:00 PM HSTA 4/2/2024 3:00:00 PM |
HB 190 |
| HB 190 - Amendment 3 Carrick HSTA.pdf |
HSTA 3/26/2024 3:00:00 PM HSTA 4/2/2024 3:00:00 PM |
HB 190 |
| CS for HB 190 Summary of Changes Version B to S.pdf |
HSTA 3/26/2024 3:00:00 PM HSTA 4/2/2024 3:00:00 PM HSTA 4/9/2024 3:00:00 PM HSTA 4/11/2024 3:00:00 PM |
HB 190 |
| CSHB 190 Sectional Analysis Version S.pdf |
HSTA 3/26/2024 3:00:00 PM HSTA 4/2/2024 3:00:00 PM HSTA 4/11/2024 3:00:00 PM |
HB 190 |
| HB 190 - Sponsor Statement Version S.pdf |
HSTA 3/26/2024 3:00:00 PM HSTA 4/2/2024 3:00:00 PM HSTA 4/9/2024 3:00:00 PM HSTA 4/11/2024 3:00:00 PM HSTA 4/16/2024 3:00:00 PM |
HB 190 |
| HB 190 Verison S.pdf |
HSTA 3/26/2024 3:00:00 PM HSTA 4/2/2024 3:00:00 PM HSTA 4/11/2024 3:00:00 PM HSTA 4/16/2024 3:00:00 PM |
HB 190 |
| HB 190 Fiscal Note - Office of Gov.pdf |
HSTA 3/26/2024 3:00:00 PM HSTA 4/2/2024 3:00:00 PM HSTA 4/9/2024 3:00:00 PM HSTA 4/11/2024 3:00:00 PM HSTA 4/16/2024 3:00:00 PM |
HB 190 |